We Can Make Nigeria Oduduwa Republic, Arewa Republic Or Biafra – Sam Ohuabunwa

Mazi Sam Ohuabunwa is a former President of the Pharmaceutical Society of Nigeria. He is also the founder and former Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of Neimeth Pharmaceuticals Plc. As the 2023 general elections draw closer, Ohuabunwa aspires to be President of Nigeria on the platform of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP). In this interview with the Editor-in-Chief of NewsProbe, Casmir Igbokwe, Mazi Ohuabunwa bares his mind on many burning issues such as subsidy, economy, restructuring, corruption, quota system, Indigenous People of Biafra (IPOB) and health.

Q: The PDP has not decided to zone the presidency to the South. With this, do you think you have any chance?

A: I believe I have a chance. No matter the decision the PDP takes, my chances are very strong. If they throw it open, it means I am going to compete with other Nigerians from other parts of the country. I don’t shy away from competition because I believe if things are done the right way, I stand a chance because I believe that when you talk about the dimensions for measuring leadership quality, who will provide the type of governance and leadership that is required, I stand in a competitive position. I am coming with a vision. I have not seen anybody come with any vision. I am coming with competence; competence of many of the people I find are doubtful. I am coming with character. When I look around, there are all kinds of questions about people’s character. I am coming with courage. Part of the reasons Nigeria hasn’t changed is because leaders haven’t shown sufficient courage to take some hard decisions to change our country. So, when I come with competence, character, courage and vision, I believe that will stand me in good position to compete with any other candidate. I am not afraid of competition. However, if they zone it to the South or the South-East, that reduces the competition. But if the competition can be reduced, I will be happier because it will make the work a lot easier.

Q: With people like Atiku Abubakar, Bukola Saraki, and even Aminu Tambuwal or the Bauchi State Governor, Bala Mohammed, you know northerners have the numbers. Don’t you think they have a better chance?

A: Well, one thing I feel is that Nigerians have come to realize that ethnic voting has not worked well for them especially my brothers from the North. In the course of this campaign, first we went round to establish the New Nigeria group which is selling our vision of a new Nigeria that will work for all; a first world nation that will move from the stagnation of a third world to first world and a country that we shall live when there will be prosperity, justice and security. When we preach that, everybody tells us that is what they want. And they don’t care who can give it to them or wherever he comes from because they have found out that those they voted for because they thought they come from their place are the ones that have exposed them to the greatest level of insecurity, of poverty, of injustice, inequity and disdain. Their health care system is not better. Their education system is not better. Their general life is not better. So, I am beginning to feel that both in the North and South, people are going to question leadership. It’s not going to just be because it’s my brother, he is from my town, he is from my ethnic nationality, he is from my religion.

I think this leadership today has given lie to the fact that coming from an area is necessarily the best that can happen to that group. The reason why we talk of rotating power is to give a sense of belonging, a sense of equity to everybody. It does not necessarily mean from what we have seen that a president from a particular area will necessarily benefit the area. If you ask the Yoruba people, they cannot tell you that they got the best when their own man was there. So, that is dying down gradually. What will eventually nail the need for rotation is when you have a president that treats every Nigerian as one, who makes sure that when appointment is made, you see the biodiversity, you see the ethnic diversity, you see the religious diversity of Nigeria. When the president stands, you see him dressed in different attire, different cultures that are around him, not the one who wears the same type of attire or speaks one type of dialect or language. That is not the Nigeria that people seek. What we believe is that ethnic bias will be minimized. I am not saying it will not exist, but it will be minimized.

So, I am not worried whether Atiku or anybody else is in this race. There is time for everybody. There is season for everything. When that season comes, it happens. Nothing can stop it. And one of the things human beings never know is when their time is up. Saul didn’t know when he had lost the anointing. It happens often. God works his purpose out. He gives you a chance. If you don’t use the chance well, He gives it to someday else.

Q:  What you have talked about is an ideal situation. It’s obvious Nigeria is in a mess. Assuming you win without the country being restructured, are you not afraid of what is going to happen considering the imbalance in the country?

A: This same constitution is what Obasanjo used to run the government. I don’t think it’s the constitution that stopped him from doing what he ought to do. The same thing with Yar’Adua and Jonathan. Buhari is using the same constitution, the same structure, but they are doing what they want to do. So restructuring Nigeria is important to me because if we want to achieve the position of a first world, we need to set our constituent groups, our federating units free to flourish. Right now, everybody is paralysed, waiting for the big brother, the federal government to dish out resources. We have a country that has an inverted federation. In a normal federation, the federating units donate power to the centre. But in the Nigerian federation, the centre is donating power to the federating units. It’s a travesty, it’s an inverted federation. That is why it is unstable. If you see a pyramid, it stands on its base. If you invert the pyramid and the base is up, then there is instability. Nigeria is suffering instability from the fact that the federation is not balanced. So, if you don’t want to call it restructuring, please call it re-engineering, call it rejigging, call it revamping. But the Nigerian system is not working optimally. In your home, your factory, your office, when a system is not working well, you rejig it. What we all have agreed whether North or South is that the system is not working for everybody. It’s working for a few people. However, the restructuring will be done not by my personal decision. It will be done by the owners of the country. So, that is one of the things we are going to do when we come to office – to get the people who own the country, the ethnic nationalities, the men, the women, the boys, the girls who own the country to sit down together and say gentlemen, this is our country. We are adults. This country is not the same country we used to be; people were not killed the same way they are being killed; poverty has not become the way it is. What has happened to us? Then we discuss? At the end of the day, we agree on how to manage our affairs. That will lead to a change of the constitution. It will lead to a change of some forms of relationships.

We will rejig our country to make it functional. The federating units will be empowered to compete, the same way they were competing before the military came. The North was doing well with its cotton, groundnut, hides and skin. The rail lines were built to evacuate the produce from the North to the ports.

Down the line, you come to the West and see their cocoa, you see their rubber. You go to the East, you see their palm produce and all that. All of them were able to compete and have regional autonomy that gave them the ability to develop the country. So, let the states have more powers to be able to run their affairs. Gold is found in Zamfara. Let Zamfara State be able to mind the gold, collect taxes, collect whatever it is and then pay some royalty to the federal government. That is the way it was done and we were flourishing. And nobody was depending on oil that has led to indolence and corruption all over the place. It’s oil that brought corruption to Nigeria; it’s oil that brought indolence. So how can we continue to do that and we say we want to be globally competitive nation? We need to change the way we organize ourselves. We need to open up our nation, make it competitive, make it investment friendly so that investment can come both local and foreign. So, that restructuring will happen. But it will not happen by fiat. It will not happen by what people are afraid of. It will happen by agreement as to how to reorganize our country. That is what we did in the national political reform conference in 2005/2006. But it didn’t see the light of the day. That’s what was done in the national conference of 2014, it didn’t see the light of the day. And Nigeria is still in that conundrum.

Q: You have spoken well especially about the economy and all that. But you forget that insecurity is also part of us. With insecurity, how will the investors come?

A: Correct. But insecurity is not a one event activity. Insecurity is a consequence of other activities. Sir, you will agree with me that poverty is contributory to insecurity. You will agree with me that injustice is contributory to insecurity. You will agree with me that poor enforcement of law and order is contributory to insecurity. You will agree with me that inability to put the right human leadership, in right positions, when you talk about putting square pegs in square holes is also contributory. So, the insecurity in Nigeria is complex. Poverty is a major factor. So that is why we talk about the economy as the first thing. We want to get people working. We want to get the nation producing. We want to get people earning living wages. We want to create opportunities for people to change their lifestyle and quality of their lives because if people have a meaningful opportunity to earn a good living, I don’t think they will prefer to hide in the bushes ordinarily. People who want to hide in the bushes will be few and we can take them out. Look at the young people that are being used. They say devil finds work in idle hands. If they have no work to do, anybody can invite them. So, we are going to harness the energy of our young people and get them productively engaged, creating wealth.

Number Two, we are going to ensure that people of this country are treated fairly; that the country does not work against its people. I was told a story by the late Professor Ibidapo Obe, the former Vice Chancellor of the University of Lagos, that when he was the VC, two young girls worked up to him. They were classmates. Both of them applied to the University of Lagos. One was taken, the other one was not taken. The one that was not taken was the one leading in the class. So, she and her friend were saying, how can it be that the best student in our class couldn’t get admission? They came to ask the VC what happened, what did the girl do not to get the admission? And her scores were also high. Ibidapo Obe said he left the two girls and went to his toilet and wept. After weeping, he came out and said, “I am going to give you admission.” Then he went to the NUC or whatever they call them in Abuja and said, “I am going to disobey you and admit this girl because I cannot explain to her why she scored higher marks, why she is a better candidate and I am taking somebody that scored lower marks.” Why because she comes from a particular part of the country. So, many people are angry at the country for restricting them and for maltreating them and treating them as if they are not bona fide citizens. They take it on the country in their different ways. You hear people talking about agitation to break away. Why? Because they have a feeling of injustice, of not being well treated, of marginalization. Some are real. Some are perceived. But it is the responsibility of any Nigerian government to ensure that when people complain of injustice, that you will correct yourself. And if their complaint is unsubstantiated, you prove it to them. If any group is angry, call the group and say, what is your problem? You resolve it. Our leaders don’t know how to build unity. They only speak about unity by word of mouth.

Q; A group like the Indigenous People of Biafra (IPOB) will think you are speaking grammar. As far as they are concerned, they don’t belong to Nigeria anymore. You think a group like that will believe what you are saying?

A: I don’t think IPOB is senseless. I don’t think they are anarchist. I also don’t think they are terrorists. I believe they are people who feel justifiably that this union is not working for them. My job will be to prove to them that they are better off with this union. It’s a simple proof. See where we are, see where we will go, see what we will gain, see what we will lose. The Igbo in Nigeria need a big space to operate. The Igbo in Nigeria are global citizens. They are not the type of people you will put in one location. They can’t survive in one location. What I will tell them is, you want Biafra? They say yes. I will tell them, let’s make Nigeria that Biafra. All those things you are dreaming of in Biafra, let’s make them happen in Nigeria. So, Biafra is an ideology, a country where you have freedom, you have free enterprise, people treat you well. I will want to convince anybody that we can make Nigeria that Oduduwa Republic. We can make Nigeria that Arewa Republic. We can make Nigeria that Biafra. Whatever name you call them, they represent certain things. I have spoken to the people in the North, in the South, in the East, they want the same thing. They want fairness. They want equity. They want the normal standard things of life. Whatever name they call them, there is no difference. But they perceive for one reason or the other that some people are cheating them. That’s why they become rebellious. I know that if our leaders will come out of their high horses, out of their pride and hatred and call the leaders of IPOB with other leaders of Igbo land or Igboho and the leaders of the South-West to a meeting, before they leave that meeting, the solution to the problem will have been found.

Q: You also alluded to quota system in educational institutions and some other institutions. But you also know that we have educationally disadvantaged states. If we don’t have things like that, how will such states survive educationally?

A: There is no problem Nigeria has that other countries do not have. What happens to one group of human beings happens to the other group. Let’s take America. If you want to go to school in America, you do TOEFL, SAT. Immediately you reach the minimum, you are admitted in any school. Now, you have what they call affirmation. That is to say, after admitting all the qualified people, we can give the educationally disadvantaged special admission. Have you seen the difference? In our own case, people are qualified, you say ‘No’ because of less qualified people. You will not go to school, wait. Let’s send those who are less qualified. In my own system, all qualified people will go. Then, we make a case for those who are less qualified and create opportunities for them to also go. So, in that way, the qualified get, the less qualified also get opportunity. They can’t reverse it because if you destroy merit, you destroy equity. That I am brilliant, so that’s my problem. That I come from a particular part of the country, did I choose? Did anybody choose to come from any part of the world or any part of the country? God created you there. How does that become a disadvantage for you in your own country? And you cross the border into another country, you are treated as an equal citizen. You come to Nigeria, you are treated like a second-class citizen. It will not work and that is what is causing the bitterness and unhappiness and the leaders don’t seem to understand it. And why they don’t understand it, only God that created them knows because they say do unto others as you wish they do unto you. If you pinch yourself and you feel pain, know that when you pinch your neighbour, he will feel pain. We are not saying there is no disadvantage, but the disadvantage should not stop the advantage from having their way. Even when you talk about subsidy like I keep saying, everybody cannot be treated equally or asked to pay the same amount of money for the same thing. There are those who are in the fringe of society. There are those who can afford it. Society should not ignore them. So, what the country does is, make sure that those who have, those who can afford to but at the price and those who cannot afford, government can then say we do something so that they too can enjoy. You cannot run a country without being compassionate. But you can’t because of compassion stop the right things from being done.

Q: You just mentioned subsidy and this brings up the issue of corruption because it is riddled with corruption. Any idea how to tackle this monster in Nigeria?

A: The monster of corruption like insecurity is also not a single element thing. There are causative factors. From our research, it is this same poverty. You can see why poverty is number one. Poverty affects insecurity, it also affects corruption. Secondly is the lack of safety nets, provision of safety nets. Everybody has to save to buy house. You have to save or steal to buy car. You have to save or steal to send your children to school. You have to save or steal to even transport yourself. We will deal with corruption this way: First, we will make sure people have the economic opportunities; either you are working for yourself or you are working for somebody else. Number Two, those who are working will be paid living wages, not starvation wages. We are going to index salaries to devaluation and inflation. If you devalue Naira, we adjust salaries. If inflation goes above five per cent, we adjust salaries. Automatically, NLC, NMA don’t have to go on strike because that is the way to sustain the purchasing power of Nigerians. If government in its economic wizardry or lack of it, allow their currency to devalue, then they must not punish their citizens. I don’t understand it. Did the citizen ask you to devalue the Naira? You must make sure that the purchasing power of your people is protected. So, the man is not under pressure to go and steal. He has work to do. His wage can take him home.

Thirdly, there is leadership by example. I can’t ask you to tighten your belt and I am the one loosening my own. If you live by example, then people will follow you. Lastly, you enforce rule of law. After you have done all these, and provide the safety nets; make sure there is a working transport system, make sure that people have health insurance so that they don’t have to pay for health out of pocket. They pay monthly health insurance. Those who do not have health insurance, government pays for them. That is, those who don’t have a work or those who are paid menial wages, government pays for them. That is the subsidy we are talking about, direct to the consumer. When they get to a particular level, you stop paying for them because you know what they earn. So, they don’t have to be looking for money to go to hospital when they are sick or to buy medicine. This leads people to steal or compromise their situations. And if they can’t afford to pay for their children’s school fees, their children may get scholarship or bursary or they can get a student loan.

Q: You are in the health profession. What do you say to our president or other top government functionaries travelling out for one health issue or the other? When you become president, will you also be travelling to London or US for medical treatment?

A: You know some of our leaders have made it look like there is no honour in leadership. That is why I talk about integrity. Integrity is you say something and you live by it. A president said when I become president, I will not allow this. He becomes president; he is the biggest abuser of what he said he would not do. Even to check eye, he will go. Even to check ear, he will go. So tell me how we are showing integrity and fidelity. A leader of armed robbers is a leader. The leader of kidnappers is a leader. But the type of leader we are talking about, integrity is the differentiating factor between an armed robber leader and a political leader of a nation. We are going to create incentives that will make it look stupid for you to go abroad and spend your money when you can have hospital, you have the consultants, you have the specialists, you have the environment and it’s cheaper. For those who work for government, we can say you can’t go abroad because we have the facilities here except it is inevitable. And if it’s inevitable, your doctors will say so.